Here is an article about the man who was pushed onto the Q train tracks earlier this week, which I mentioned yesterday in class: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/nyregion/police-arrest-naeem-davis-in-subway-death.html?ref=nyregion
For me, this brought up questions about the diffusion of responsibility: why didn't anyone help him? What does that say about human nature?
I think there are also some connections to Lord of the Flies, especially relating to the fact that no one really wanted to take responsibility for Simon's death. Even if Ralph and Piggy weren't actively involved in his murder (though this is arguable), why didn't they try to help him?
What causes us to freeze up in these moments, rather than help our fellow citizens? If you have comments, please post them!
I think it was all so crazy and people were scared after the man fell in the tracks. But when the suspect kept saying things to him, someone should've stepped up and helped him and should've at least done something more than just watching him struggle in the tracks, i think it shows how selfish some people can be, and also with the man that did this, it shows what people are capable of and how violent people can be. The suspect killed an innocent person. Also the fact that someone could get a picture of this and not bother to help really shows how selfish and uncaring people can be.
ReplyDeleteFirst, to address the murder of a man, I have to say that I am disappointed/ horrified of the species I am a part of. We as humans, the "smartest" species on the planet, should have the sense to save another man from death, or at least not push him in the tracks in the first place. I think that humans are very selfish, except for the few that try to make this world better. The only reason someone would not help that person could only be because they wanted to feel more assured in their own safety, which is usually the single most important factor of all decisions we make. We think, how will I be affected?, before saving a man who is about to die. In the Lord of the Flies, I defend all involved in the murder of Simon. They were riled up and could not tell that "the beast" was Simon. Ralph feels guilty because he was partially involved, but I can't blame him because he didn't know. I believe that if he knew it was Simon he would've tried to stop everyone.
ReplyDelete- Gabriel Sanchez 8A
Ever since we have been young, we have been practicing in case any disaster happens (such as fire). However, when this disaster becomes real, people may start to panic, therefore forgetting what they were taught to do when a situation such as this one occurs. When people watched the man fall into the tracks,they may have panicked and completely forgot what to do in this type of disaster. People may have seen what the suspect did to his victim (the suspect pushed the man off the platform) and became scared that this man would do the same to them. All of this happened in such a short amount of time that some people may still have been making up their minds whether to help him or not even after he got hit. However, I do think that is was very indecent of someone to snap pictures of the man while not helping him up. If this one man had helped him, it could have been the difference between life and death.
ReplyDelete-Shira Shkedi
8D
When we became civilized, we buried most of our gut, animal, instincts deep inside of our minds, and souls, withdrawing it from the world. We, unlike animals, help each other out, whether it is regarding homework or a multi-million dollar business. But when it comes to an immediate life or death situation, we regular, everyday citizens do not help. It might seem strange, because helping out a fellow member of our species is exactly what separates us from animals. Take a herd of gazelle from a Nature show. If it is attacked by a pack of lions, it will run away, and all of the inferior and slow gazelles will be devoured. The faster ones will not stop to think about the others because they might get killed as well. The exact same situation was here as well. A man was pushed onto the tracks, and everybody did nothing. The main reason for this would be that we became animals, instinctively, at that moment. The people forgot everything about civilization and helping others and focused (selfishly) on themselves. They knew that if they jumped in as well, they would get killed. I also think that it has to do with shock. They were torn between saving the person, and letting them die. Plus, you don't really see people get pushed onto the tracks on a daily basis. It's rare to find that happening, so they were paralyzed from the situation at hand and I would be as well. And to be honest, I would react like the bystanders. I know I do not have the courage, and I am no hero. I would be torn between saving the man and just staying put, because I don't want to die (the instinct), but I also want to help the poor man (civilization). I would like for YOU (Ms. Snowden) to have a poll on Edmodo asking students, what they would do. It would be interesting to see how much of our class would show a sense of fake bravado, or tell the truth. Now regarding Shira's comment, I do think that it is very indecent to let the poor man get killed by the train and take pictures of him. It's like from the Agatha Christie book "And Then There Were None" A.K.A. "Ten Little Indians." One of the characters responsible for taking care of a kid, let’s the kid swim off into the ocean, and watches the kid drown. It's sort of like treachery and mockery. The poor man would especially expect the photographer to do something (other than photograph) and help him out. But the photographer says, "No, I am going to take pictures of you dying, have fun!!!"
ReplyDeleteDr. Wojcik (Jan Wojcik)
8C
I think the bystanders didn't do anything because they were afraid the suspect would do it to them. If the victim really had alcohol in his system, he may have been acting a little off, and may have asked for it by the way he was acting. If the victim was acting a little off, I still think the suspect had no reason to get physical with the victim unless the victim had attacked the suspect. For LOTF, I think that if they weren't actively involved, they may have realized too late or they were just too shocked to do anything. The chanting of the others and the mood of the moment may have also affected them and made them intimidated to say anything to them.
ReplyDeleteJordan Chan 8C
I wouldn't necessarily say that the people didn't help the victim because they didn't care. It's just that death is this big, huge, weird thing in our society. It fascinates us—in movies, music, books, TV, video games and other pop culture. That being said, we're also sort of allergic to it in the way that we try to avoid it as much as possible. It’s a mix of being like, hyper apparent and too tangible, but also a barren, safe-guarded secret because none of us have actually DIED before.
ReplyDeleteWhen we see it happen (or are a part of it like in the boys’ case) it’s probably a strange sensation. It’s like, ‘OH HERE’S THIS THING I’VE LIVED BY WHOLE LIFE TO AVOID’ but also ‘WAIT IS THIS AN EPISODE OF BONES?’ What are you expected to do when something you’re not totally aware of, but have seen a million times on Netflix is there, imploding right before your eyes?
Death isn’t a super defined thing because life isn’t a super defined thing even though we treat them both like they are. When someone is dying, what exactly are they leaving behind? What does that mean to you? What if you didn’t even know them? What if you never even took the Q train or got stranded on the island? What’s the meaning of life?
I bet it also brings out the animal in us, that’s like, ‘Wait? Don’t people die all the time? Isn’t it sort of…normal?’ I’m not totally sure what I’m trying to say here, but the bottom line is that we all think we’re so familiar with death and know what our reactions should be thanks to Laura Palmer’s mom’s shrieking/crying/some sort of animal mating ritual-type moaning when she learned her daughter’s dead body was washed ashore, BUT when it’s all wriggly and naked in front of our faces, we have no idea what on earth is going on.
-Danielle Eisenman 8C
(To answer Danielle's question: the meaning of life is 42 [just joking, I don't know!] )
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I don't think that anyone could have helped that poor man. There was too little time and whoever tried to help would put themselves at risk. Second of all, this event, I think, is really the responsibility of everyone involved in this terrible event. Even though the guy pushed Mr. Han onto the tracks, he was obviously motivated by Mr. Han's actions towards him. Mr. Han was being aggressive towards the suspect, and while the suspect was trying to diffuse the conflict, Mr. Han persisted to bother him. Then, Mr. Han was on the tracks. Mr. Han also had alcohol on his breath, leading me to believe that this incident is no different than drunk driving. How could the drunk person's friend know that he would die under the hands of his friend? The friend doesn't even understand since he/she is drunk and is oblivious to the real life consequences. In the suspect's case, how does he know that Mr. Han is drunk and that he will push him onto the tracks? He probably was acting under instinct. Pertaining to the LOTF, Piggy and Ralph were doing the same thing. They were acting under their own instincts. How could they know that the Beast is just a harmless corpse, just as how the suspect didn't know that Mr. Han is normally a nice and caring person? The actions of others in the present are the things we base our interactions with them on. For instance, if your best friend is being a complete *expletive*, would you act like you are their best friend? I wouldn't! In reality, we really do judge a book by its cover!
- Jordan Roseman 8A
I think that the reason that nobody tried to help the man as he was inside the train track is because the bystanders probably didn't want to get hurt in the process. They might have thought someone else would help the victim and they wouldn't want to get into their way. I don't think it is entirely the suspect's fault because the victim may have been intoxicated and was probably making everyone feel paranoid that he was going to do something bad to them (as a stereotype for drunk people). There is a posibility that the suspect was paranoid and may have heard voices of the victim coming at him, so he was trying self-defense towards the victim. This article is really controversial. In Lord of the Flies, when Piggy and Ralph realized that they too had killed Simon, they probably didn't react to it that well because they didn't want to accept the fact that they killed a human being. This relates to the article, because the suspect might not have wanted to kill the victim, but he might of not been thinking and was just really scared, so he pushed.
ReplyDelete-Anders Getz 8D
This incident has been all over the news, and probably because it brings up a lot of controversy concerning human nature and because it was just an awful death. If I died from being pushed into the subway tracks, sure, it would be a tragic death, but I suppose what's done is done. HOWEVER, if I died because no one bothered to help me, I think that that would be the worst possible way to go. As for the bystanders, if I were one of the witnesses of the scene, it's debatable what I would've done. Without knowing the real story and by only understanding with my eyes, I might've only seen two men who looked crazy and drunk and were fighting. If that were the case, I think I might've walked away. The actual witnesses of the incident probably also walked away for the same reason - to detach themselves from conflicts they didn't want to involve themselves in. However, I know that if I saw anyone struggling to get up out of the subway tracks, I would go and help him/her without hesitation, which is why I'm appalled that everyone in the station neglected the fact that Mr. Han was stuck in the tracks, and that some even had the nerve to photograph/videotape the event! This really shows how not doing the right thing can overpower doing what is right. It's also just like the situation in LOTF where both the boys on the island and the people in train station were faced with a choice that was so obvious, and yet completely oblivious to them. I think the reason that majority of the boys and the witnesses didn't want to make the fire/help Mr. Han was because like Gabe said, humans are naturally selfish. Honestly, do you really want to lug wood around all day or pull people out of subway tracks? Of course not! But your heart (or brain or whatever) should still remind you that you have to do it because it's truly the right thing to do even so. It's like how Ralph felt like giving up sometimes, but deep inside, he knew that he had to keep the fire going. However, taking the easy way out can be much more appealing to some, and can overpower the will to do what's right, and that's exactly what happened in this case. I know that all the bystanders probably now wished they did something because they're aware of how Mr. Han's family is suffering, but at that moment, the thought probably never occurred to them, or they probably just pushed it aside.
ReplyDelete~ Emily Ma 8B
This incident really magnifies our selfishness and our lack of perception when a situation like this presents itself. I don’t know what I would have done, but there are many reasons why I might not have tried to help. First of all, the element of shock would probably have frozen me. The situation would have also terrified me, like it would anyone. Saying that though, if one person had tried to help, I think it is more likely that I would have joined in.
ReplyDeleteThe element of danger is the most significant thing in the situation. If this man fell onto the tracks accidentally and a train wasn't coming, I believe almost everyone would be willing to help, including me. People would do this because they wouldn’t feel like they were risking their lives to do it. But not only was a train coming, there was a person who pushed him onto the tracks standing right there. I would not want to get in the way of a person who obviously had the motive to kill someone. I value my own life over a stranger’s, and so does everyone else. Why would you risk your life for someone that you don't know? I would have to feel confident that my life would not be at risk and confident enough that I could actually help. Because I’m smaller than an adult, I probably wouldn't have the strength to pull the man up all by myself. If I was the only one trying to help, my efforts would not be useful because all I would be doing would be risking my own life. The last reason I would probably not help him is because of responsibility. I'M A KID. Adults come before me. In this situation, they're supposed to try to save that man before I try to make an effort. So before I would act, I would want to see some adults take action.
But then again, these are all theories on how I would act. I can't put myself in that situation, so I don't actually know what I would do. It also could depend on what you're feeling when you're in the situation. What thoughts come to your head? Did you see the whole altercation? What is the danger level? What are other people around me doing? It might even be a snap decision based on my emotions at that moment. If I were feeling strong and confident, that would help me to act.
-Liam O'Connor 8d
I am surprised that nobody went to help. I wonder why no one tried to stick out their hand or tell the man to duck under the train in the middle or wedge them selves between the train and the wall. Instead they took out there phones and took pictures?! thats what surprised me the most. In Lord of the Flies no one helps Simon because they realize it is too late for him. Just like how I think the people figured the man was so traumatized it was too late to help him just like in LOTF. Also the people there must have been horrified to see the man get crushed. Maybe some people were thinking if they took pictures they might get some recognition. If I had been there I would have liked to think I would have helped but in reality I would pretend to be running to help but really I would be going a little slower so I wouldn't make it there in time.
ReplyDelete• Eva Jacobs •